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Original: 8/23/2008 2:17 AM
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Saturday, August 23, 2008

Abortion and Fundamentalists

 

Some comments I made that I think belong here.  I was reading this post on revelife about a group of fundamentalist Christians who were displaying pictures of aborted babies at a function meant to be family friendly.  It made me upset for several reasons.  Here are my comments.  First, I said:

I have two points for each extreme.  First, for the crazy fundamentalists:

1. I hate the image this gives non-Christians of the rest of us Christians, and I hate the image this gives "pro-choice" people of us non-violent pro-life people.  Christians are supposed to love.  EVERYONE.  It's a difficult concept to grasp, I know, but this is the way it's supposed to be.  Attacking people over their sins is not the right way.  In God's eyes, sin is sin.  Period.  There is no degree of sin.  Everyone sins, and just because you're a Christian and have taken the advantage of Jesus's gift for us all, doesn't make you better than anyone else.  You must remember that you do not deserve salvation, it's a gift, from God, because He loves you.  It's your choice to accept that gift, but you are not by any means earning it.  "For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. " Ephesians 2:8-9

2. I would be devastated and revolted to see these things.  It's not only women who've had abortions who would be upset by this.  What about women who are or have been pregnant?  What about women with their own babies?  What about--and this is the kicker for me--women who've lost babies?  Who've had miscarriages?  What about them?  What about the horror and misery these images would bring back for them?  Women who were happily expecting a child only to have lost it for unknown NATURAL reasons?  Or from abuse.  It's a feeling that never totally goes away, and things like this would bring that back to the surface, and these women aren't even the targets for such a "ministry."  It doesn't take much to bring it to my mind, though I now have a living child to love and adore.

Second, for the pro-abortionists:

3. When it's often so difficult for women who want children to get pregnant and stay that way, who are you, blessed with a child, to throw that away?  Why not pass your blessing on to someone who can't have their own child?  Even a child of rape is still an innocent baby, it isn't the baby's fault you were in the wrong place at the wrong time when someone decided they wanted to do something terrible to you.  I can understand not wanting to see the face of an attacker in your child every day, but you could still give the baby a loving home with someone who doesn't have that association with him/her.  The baby is just as much a victim as you are and doesn't deserve to be punished for it.  There are many people out there who would gladly adopt such a child.  There is no such thing as an unwanted child.  There is always someone willing to love them.  And "pro-choice?"  I think this term only applies to those who were raped.  The rest of you made your choice when you decided to have unsafe sex if you didn't want a baby.  I think the proper term should be "pro-abortion."  You want the choice of what to do with your body, and you have that right; you've made that choice already, but you have no right over the body of the child inside you.  That body belongs to that child, who should be allowed to make his/her own choices when the time comes.  But so many never get the chance.

4. Every time a woman chooses to have an abortion, the world loses a child who could've been someone great.  What if we've lost the mind who was destined to find the cure for cancer?  What if Mary had had an abortion?  Where would the world be then?  Think of all the potential that's being killed off!  What if there was only one chance for that cure for cancer to be found, but the one person who would've been in the right place at the right time to take advantage of that chance had been killed in the womb?  Just a little food for thought.

Ok, I think that's it.  I'm done.  <(^_^)^

And then walkingintotheseaaa made a good point:

@PING_DA_ROBOT_GIRL@xanga - I do agree with you, pretty much completely.  In fact, I agree with your views on every situation/idea you wrote about.  But what about women who are told that they could die or be permantently greatly disabled during their pregnancy?  Or that their babies will be stillborn?  Or that they are for sure going to die immediately after birth due to a defect they can already spot?  Should the woman be forced to carry that child to term, putting unbearable emotional and possibly physical stress on her?  In these situations, I feel that abortion should at least be kept as an option.  Maybe you feel that way, but you left that out.  I just felt compelled to ask.

I also worry that more coat hanger abortions and self-induced miscarriages will occur if abortion is outlawed, but that's another issue.

And these are my opinions on that:

@walkintotheseaaa@xanga - Those sorts of things don't happen as much anymore.  In fact it's very rare for a woman to die in childbirth in a developed country these days.  Though there's definitely a chance of complications during abortion, like a perforated uterus or infections, sterility, all kinds of complications during later pregnancies, increased risk of ectopic pregnancy, which can be fatal. There's also almost always damage to the cervix, which can cause a condition called incompetent cervix meaning it can't bear the weight of a child to full term, causing miscarriage or premature birth.  And that's not even half of it.  I wonder about all these complications and the fact that they can affect you the rest of your life, making it hard to have children once you want them, and just don't understand how someone could risk all of that, rather than let nature take its course.  So it's not only affecting the child you're getting rid of, but yourself and any future children you may have.  I still think it's wrong to kill a child, however I guess that's something you have to decide for yourself on an individual basis.  If you have faith then I think you should take faith that what happens happens for a reason and just because the doctors say you'll die, doesn't mean you will.  If you don't, well, then I don't know.  I don't claim to have all the answers.  I personally have never met a woman who had an abortion that didn't regret it, I do know that.  I'm wondering if that feeling is worse than miscarriage since it was something you chose, when miscarriage is usually something you had no control over?  I guess I'll never know. 

As for stillbirth, that's completely different.  That's not even really a part of the issue.  The child is already dead, it's only safer for the mother if they remove it.  And in the case of defects, I say the same as I did with danger to the mother, doctors have no way of knowing for sure.  They're never a hundred percent positive.  My brother was born at 26 and a half weeks.  No baby had ever survived earlier than 26 weeks at the time he was born.  They told my parents not to get attached, he would probably die, and if he lived he would be mentally retarded.  He's fourteen now, and as indestructible as any teenage boy, and more intelligent than most of them.  So I don't hold much stock in doctors' foretellings of doom.  Once again it's a matter of faith or not.  My aunt, when she was pregnant with one of her two youngest, was told that since she was as old as she was that she ought to have a test to see if he would have down syndrome.  She refused, because the test could cause miscarriage, and she said they'd keep him and raise him as he needed even if he did have down syndrome so what was the point?  And so she had him, and he's just as healthy and normal as all the rest of her five kids.  I believe if there's even a chance at life (the child isn't already dead) then that chance should not be taken away.

Coat hanger abortions and self induced miscarriages, well if a woman is stupid enough to do something like that to herself then she deserves whatever consequences come of it.  Period. 

Right, well, these are my opinions on the subject, and I just thought it would make sense to put them here as well. 

 Posted 8/23/2008 2:17 AM - 11 Views - 2 eProps - 2 comments

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I pretty much agree with your responses.  Even the most modern medicine can be flawed and people can outlive anything it seems.  Babies assumed to die before, during, or after birth manage to see their high school graduations.  I'm just a big "what if? game" player (which annoys even me sometimes!) and I guess my point was if a woman is told something like I stated, she should have the choice, but only in that situation.  Abortions are not birth control.  While I'm not going to go around and tell the world's women what to do with their bodies when they conceive (especially since I'll probably never go through it myself), using abortions in a "OOPS" situation is cruel and disgusting.  And, yes, women who would induce an abortion... it's so terribly sad but so wrong.

I noticed you said that even in rape cases, the pregnancy should be carried through.  And, I agree that if the woman's body can handle a pregnancy, it should be carried and adopted, or maybe even kept.  But (remember, I'm an annoying what-if kid), what if a 12-year-old got raped?  Or even a bit younger?  My body could theoretically conceive from that age.  If my 11-year-old daughter was raped and impregnated, I don't know if I'd want her to go through that kind of physical and emotional trauma.  But I guess it depends on the situation.  I'd let her make her choice, I suppose.  It's just situations like that, and what I've mentioned before, that make me iffy.

It's such a touchy subject.  I have a lot of respect for you and what you say.  Hopefully my what-ifs aren't too annoying.

Posted 8/23/2008 10:03 AM by walkintotheseaaa Xanga True Member - reply

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@walkintotheseaaa - 

I don't find your what-ifs annoying, rather they're thought provoking.  As for really young girls, they were being married off as soon as they hit puberty for thousands of years, and having babies almost immediately, considering it was important to people back then to have large families.  It seems to me that God, if you believe in God, wouldn't have made it possible for a girl to become pregnant that young and impossible for her to survive it at the same time.  And think about it this way, all those girls all those thousands of years did it without pain medication, and without c-section, basically without any kind of medical help whatsoever.  There's so much out there medically these days, that I'd think the chance of such a girl surviving would be pretty high, especially since they'd been surviving at a fairly decent number in the past (otherwise I have the feeling our population either wouldn't exist or would be much smaller) without any modern medicine.  My opinion is that adoption would be necessary there, though once again, I don't claim to have all the answers and it's really something that's got to be looked at by the individuals involved.  Oh, something that just occurred to me, how do they do the thing with the frozen embryos for people who are sterile?  Do they start them out in a lab, or do they start them in a mother and then remove them.....cause if the unborn child could be removed from the twelve year old and then stored...?  Maybe to be given to a couple who can't concieve, but the woman could carry a pregnancy with no problem?  No dead baby, no preteen giving birth....and a baby for a couple who can't have their own, sounds good all around but could it work?  I'll have to research that....see?  I told you!  Thought provoking!  Hm....
Posted 8/24/2008 12:58 AM by PING_DA_ROBOT_GIRL - reply


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